Hello, You’re listening to the K-12 tech podcast, bringing you insights into the world of education technology. Stay tuned as we discuss the past, the present, and most importantly, the future of technology in our schools.
Don, thank you for being on Episode four or five of the Origins podcast, and then we’re going to split it up into two segments because we got some feedback from some listeners about missing more of the technical side. So we’ll be talking about that in the second part of this. So, I appreciate you coming out to the Valpo office. I hope it wasn’t too bad of a drive for you.
No, it was actually pretty good. Nice, surprisingly slow Chicago traffic. Morning. So I’ll take that any day.
And before we started the podcast, I saw he had pulled up.He’s got a Tesla, and then he’s got the beta self-driving stuff
Yeah, full self-driving.
So we’re talking about that. But that’s…
It’s pretty cool. It’s pretty cool.
Yeah, probably makes the drive a lot more easy, so.
It does, yeah.
So with the origin stories, we’re just trying to really bring people’s stories out and highlight the decisions people made during their life and what interest they have, core interest they have that brought them to where they are today to help encourage a younger generation that are coming into these roles and what they can be doing early on in their in their journey for their careers to get there. Because, I mean, really, you think about it, there’s just in the public, public K-12, there’s about 15-16000 public schools. At 16,000 tech directors, they need to be. And that doesn’t even include the private sector, which is probably a similar number.. So, yeah, I’d love to start. Why don’t we start from the beginning? When did you start getting interested in technology? And that could be, you know, you go as far back as you want. Yeah. And walk me through college.
That’s interesting. I was always kind of a tech guy, was into it, you know, building my own computers and things like that. So I when I started college, I was majoring in computer science and, and, you know, did the computer engineering classes ended up in a class where we had to write some code that would defragment a hard drive, you know, and this is back in the nineties, you know, So I’m very slow, really hard to troubleshoot that sort of thing. So I’ve been working on this program for probably an entire week and then finally said, You know what? This isn’t what I want to do for a living. So I took a very strange turn and majored in philosophy for the rest of the way. So I got a bachelor’s degree in philosophy
Okay, time out. Why philosophy? Walk me through that.
You know, here’s the thing. You know, I was always kind of into science, too, and into like, these big questions, like, you know, why are we here? You know, does God exist? You know, that sort of thing. So I’m always into those really, really big, giant questions. And physics can help you with that. There’s no science that can help you with that. It’s really philosophy that you know what? What should I do? You know? And that’s the basic question of ethics is what should I do? You know what I need to do. And these big questions really intrigued me. So that’s why I majored in philosophy.
Wow, that’s that’s quite a transition from computer science to philosophy.
Well, and the interesting thing was, too, though, when I was in the master’s degree program, I was working with a professor who was doing some indexing on a book that he was writing. And so we managed to automate some of that indexing form, both in German, English, and in Greek. And we did the indexing, and, you know, I was doing it on a 4625. You know, in some ways, it was taking a little while. But yeah, so I was able to kind of combine my interests that way.
That’s great. Were there any mentors, like kind of looking back even early on in high school, did you have any like mentors or anybody who kind of read them to you and helped kind of develop you as a leader?
Yeah, you know what? It’s funny, you remember all your managers from way back and you know, Chuck Brown, you know, when I was working in restaurants, when I was in high school, you know, I’ll always remember that guy. There was another restaurant manager who was a psych major who, you know, influenced me to some extent, really, when I got out into I start in the private sector and really when I got in there, you know, it’s people like Philip King, whose was a regional service manager at Best Buy, and now he runs a service center in Chicago. But it was those kinds of people that I really learned a lot from, not only from a customer service standpoint, but from a, you know, just a kind of a workflow of managing ticketing systems, that sort of thing.
Yeah. So, walk me through that. So you’re in? Did you end up getting your masters in the Master’s program?
Yeah, I ended up getting a masters degree in philosophy and then did the coursework for a Ph.D. By then it was becoming apparent that nobody was getting tenure in philosophy. So I stopped at that point. And, you know, there’s still a kind of a gut thing in me that wants to teach. I was an adjunct for a couple of years at a community college. So there’s that interest in me in education, too. So that I think, played a really big factor in me getting where I’m at now.
Yeah. So you, you graduate, you get your masters. What’s your kind of first job out of college?
My first job out of college. After I finished that the Ph.D. work, I was working at Best Buy the entire time I was in grad school. So this regional service manager position came open about six months after I graduated. You know, I’ve got a brand new daughter, so, you know, it’s time for me to make some money. And so I took this regional service manager position, and that was essentially supervising all the technical people in the Best Buy stores.
Because, that’s pre Geek Squad, right?
Yeah, that’s pre-Geek Squad. In some sense, I’d like to say that I’m one of the original geeks. There was, there was, there were a few of us that kind of did a study on non-services nationwide and found that we had a pretty good competency for technical services. So you know, we explored that a little bit. We wrote a standard operating procedure for that. And then, you know, at that point we hired a new vice president, which, you know, was again, another leader that influenced me, Peters. So we hired him away from Sears, bought Geek Squad, and the rest is history.
That’s awesome. So how long were you in that position?
I started in, what, ‘97 and didn’t leave until 2006.
Okay, so you did quite a bit of time. You did nine years. So what changed?
So, at the time, Best Buy wanted to move that service center down to Louisville, Kentucky, and it’s now down there. It’s called Geek Squad City. One of the guys that worked for me in Chicago is now the quote-unquote, mayor of Geek Squad City. And I didn’t want to move to Louisville. They wanted me to do analytics in Minneapolis. And I didn’t really want to do that. So I left. And you know, that that was essentially it. I just left.
Where did you end up going right after that?
So I worked in a little company in the private sector that folded. You know, they just didn’t it didn’t work out. And then at the time, the school district I lived in was looking for a tech leader, you know, to sort of coordinate customer service and do that sort of thing. So I took the job.
Awesome. So when you’re taking that job, obviously coming from the private sector and then going into the public sector, what’s the biggest difference? I mean, maybe outline some things that were really refreshing about it and maybe some things that were extremely difficult.
You know, actually, I don’t know that there was anything that was extremely difficult. I mean, the staff at this district was amazing. It was good to, you know, be around students. You know, it was really, really good to be in that environment. My daughter actually was in junior high at the time and waved at me while I was in the school, which blew my mind. Excuse me, but yeah, I don’t think there was. And the thing that I think I brought to that, that district, and the thing I still think I bring now is just this relentless focus on customer service. It’s always about what we can’t think of or what we do in public schools. As a technologist, as technology. We don’t do technology. We do education in everything we do in technology that supports that. And I know everybody knows that, but in some cases, it’s a little harder to live it than to know it intellectually.
What do you do? Because I like this. I like that your story starts out in the private sector. A lot of the people I talked to, most of them have been in education their whole lives for a lot of portions of it. What stuff do you feel like you learned in the public sector that have really helped you with your career in the public sector?
So essentially, we and actually I’ve used this in every job since then, we did a lot of work at Best Buy and really created a great culture for people to work in. So we really, really focused pretty hard on it. There was a book called First Break All the Rules by Marcus Buckingham, and he actually came out and talked to us, but we used to have a significant part of our evaluation as our employee satisfaction slash engagement numbers based on the Gallup 12 questions. It starts with, I have the tools and equipment I need to do my work. And then the last question, the 12th question is I have a best friend at work and, you know, it kind of goes from there. I’ve used that ever since to really drive customer engagement, drive engagement on my team. And really part of it is that strengths finder that it has where it really assesses what your strengths are, and it’s pretty accurate.
But I do that with my teams to say, okay, here’s what I’m good at, here’s what you’re good at, here’s you know, what this person is good at. And we can say, okay, you know, Laura had us, you know, one of my managers in charge of my technicians is really good at this. I’m not really good at it. So if I need some help with that, if I need, you know, somebody to weigh in on that, help me out with it. I go to Laura, you know, and this way we can kind of work together as a team and really complement each other
Yeah, that’s been really refreshing. As you know, behind closed doors, when I’m talking with a lot of tech directors, I hear not so psyched about their staff and people they inherited. Like, this is someone’s niece, this the superintendent’s niece or whatever. And the last the tech directors have really gotten to know and really respect have been ones that have been really focused on that culture. It’s enjoyable, witty, but then also accountability. And I think I think I think there’s like a misnomer and you know, I’m see we have, you know, 6070 employees in this business is that people think like I don’t want to over you don’t want to overwhelm your employees, but also your employees don’t want to come to work and not feel like they’re needed.
Exactly. Exactly. And the one thing I always tell people that work for me is if you dread coming to work in the morning, if you’re at work and you’re unhappy with, you know, life is short, you know, you can’t spend your time doing a job you don’t like. So if you’re unhappy, then you need to go be happy. You need to figure out what you need in your life. And so I do that with staff. But at the same time, I tell everybody, you know, part of working for me is having fun. Yeah. You know, if you’re not having fun, then it’s just not worth doing. And in my mind.
How do you help an employee, especially when some of the monotonous things have to be done? How do you help them have fun?
So the thing is, we just like to maintain. So, you know, I’ll walk around and, you know, in my role at Best Buy at actually saying a little bit to people unconventional but I like to lead by example and really have fun by example. So you know I’ll work with the staff to, you know, get them to know that I want them to have fun. And I’ll do that by modeling, having fun to some extent. And, you know, I’ve been in the current job I’m in now since July 1st, and I think my staff is having fun now, it seems like so. So it’s nice to be able to do that.
Yeah, during our discovery call. So you got into education at your daughter’s district, and then you’ve had a few changes because you’re like 2007 to now you know you have, you know, 16 years. There can you walk through kind of that 16 years and things that you feel like you’ve accomplished and you have tons of certifications, and you know, what’s really helped you go into that district? And I don’t know if this is a good question to ask or not, but like you kind of seem like a guy that’s almost like a bar rescue, like the bar rescue show, like you kind of go in and you fix it and you develop people, and then it’s kind of running itself. You’re like, Well, I’m going to move on to the next wonder.
It’s really funny you say that because, well, when I started out, I was in the Oswego School District, which is in the town I live in, and one of the people that I worked with was on the Board of Education in the neighboring town. And, you know, she said, look, we’re looking to bring somebody in. What do you think? So I went over there and that school district was broken. When I got there. They had just fired everybody in technology. You know, the only building that had a real enterprise grade wireless network was the high school. There were ten elementary schools at the time and three middle schools, none of which really had a wireless network that was even close to being what we needed.So over the course of that, the first thing we did was hire temporary people and then started working on upgrading those buildings with vendors. The people that I brought in as temps, two of them actually followed me to the next district. You know, Anthony Rice.
They are, you know, rock stars that were able to help build that team and really hire the right people and do those sorts of things. So, from that progression of where it was broken, it really started with getting the right people in the right place. And then, you know, handling that technology piece. But the key is getting the right people in the right place. And, you know, like I said before, using their strengths to really push us forward.
Yeah, I like that. So you’re 16 years and then kind of talk your final transition to where you are now, just that decision, and…
Well, as I told you when we were chatting a little bit before, I was driving 84 miles a day to get to the district that I worked in at the time. And honestly, you know, that’s taking two and a half hours out of your day.I just was just to a point where I just couldn’t take the commute anymore. I was lucky enough in that the district, a district like, what, 15 minutes from my house, I had a position open. It was an unfortunate reason they did have it. The previous person in the role passed away, but they were open. And you know, I interviewed for the job and was, you know, very fortunate to get it. And now I drive 15 minutes a day, you know, there and back. So 15 minutes there, 15 minutes back. So, you know, I can work till 5:00 and be home at a quarter after five rather than 6: 30. Yeah. Which is a huge benefit. It really makes a difference.
Yeah, that’s massive. So for all the people, either they’re technicians at a school or maybe they’re a teacher. What are some things? What are some pieces of advice you would give them to help them to hone their skills and to start working their way towards either a technician role or an instructional role or a tech director role.
So what I would say is that you really have to,A, you know, first to me, that customer service orientation is huge. And even in teaching staff, I mean, you know, our parents and our kids, they’re the reason we’re there, and we have to make sure that we’re investing in them. And for technology leaders or tech ones, whomever, the reason we’re there is to support staff. And, you know, we interact with kids, too, but our job is to make it easier for staff to do their job now and then to have ways for them to better connect with students. So that’s huge. So for me, it’s really that customer service excellence. Now in terms of hiring a tech one, one of the best people that ever worked for me, it was a tractor guy who put together lawn tractors, and he came in and really was about the best that I had. And it’s that it’s really just having that customer service skill, the willingness to, you know, make a mistake to, you know, to do what you can and, you know, admit that, okay, you know what?
That didn’t work. But, you know, find the troubleshooting steps. You know, that troubleshooting aspect is okay, but I always tell my people to not be afraid to make mistakes, because we all do. And to, you know, essentially looking over your shoulder, worried about making mistakes is a horrible way to work. So that’s one thing I tell everybody is don’t be afraid to make mistakes, but at the same time, you know, make it better, you know, don’t make the same mistake over and over.But for an aspiring tech leader, I’d say, you know, you’re just really determined what you want to do. You know, have an idea of where you want to go.
Like, for example, I’ve got to always work on professional development with my teams. And, you know, I’ve got people that have no desire to be a tech leader. I’ve got others that do. So my job is to develop them. But I would say make sure that you’re engaging with whomever you work for, letting them know what you want, working on professional development to get you there. I mean, getting a CEDL certification, you know, as the guy from CoSN and it’s going to say that, but you know, get that certification, get involved, you know, get to know your fellow leaders or your fellow aspiring leaders. Get a mentor. I’ve mentored a couple of people in my career. And to me, that’s a really important part of what we do. But have a mentor that can help moving forward, too
Yeah, I love that. I love that. So, being a tech director or executive director of technology is very stressful. You’re kind of basically kind of like always on call. You know, I’m sure you’ve had plenty of those late-night Saturday night calls. Hey, we’ve been hacked.
Yeah. Yeah.
What do you do to recharge, to fill yourself? Maybe some personal disciplines you have. It’s, like, good for your mental health.
So, first of all, I do mindfulness. So I try to get into places where I try to empty my mind and just be in the world. So for me, it’s listening to the things around me that really sort of takes me out of, you know, worrying about the future or fretting about the past. You know, just being there, listening to me is, is huge. So I’ll do that. I love to read. So, you know, I’m and you know, by the certifications, I love to learn, too. So that’s really a way that I keep myself engaged is by, you know, reading, learning. I’m still reading philosophy, actually. So for me, it’s really it’s, it’s I suppose, recharging for me to spend time with my family. I play golf. So doing that.
What’s your handicap on the pod.
You don’t even want to know. I struggle breaking a hundred, so. You know it is what it is. I’m getting better. But, you know.
Yeah, I used to when I was in high school, I played golf like six or seven days a week. Every day, every day. And I was in the military, so I don’t get to play as much. Then I got married, had kids, and now I play like ten times a year.
Right? Right.
Yeah. So it’s..
It changes. You get older like for example, my son and I are playing on Sunday.
So yeah, that’s really fun.
That’s pretty cool.
Yeah. So one thing I actually did want to ask you, just with you getting your master’s in philosophy, do you feel like any of that translated into your current job? And then do you have any books that you would suggest would be a good one for an intro into that stuff?
That, you know what, it every day I think that plays in. And because one thing about philosophy, it’s about critical thinking. It’s about analyzing things. So, for example, when I’m looking at contracts, I can really focus on details. We had a cyber attack of my last district and, you know, we were combing through registry entries on one computer and, you know, boom, seeing that one entry that looked weird, you know, and just being able to, you know, a come in from a high-level standpoint, but then be able to see the details, too. So I think philosophy helps with that. For an introductory book on philosophy, that’s tough. Philosophers are really bad writers. We philosophers write we write for each other, essentially. And you know, if you look at some of the stuff I wrote back in the day, it’s just so technical that it’s that bad. I’d have to get back to you on that. A good intro book for philosophy.
Or a favorite.
A favorite of mine… I’m A fan of Heidegger’s “Being in time”. Heidegger wasn’t the best person, you know, lived in Germany during the Nazi era, and he wasn’t reprehensible for that point. But the whole notion of being in time and what time is. So, you know, I’m sitting in a leadership meeting in my last district and, you know, a friend of mine heard a table and, you know, I just said, what is time? You know, let’s think about what is time? And that is a very hard question. In the district I was in before this one, I developed a pretty good relationship with a math teacher and shared a book with him. Lee Smolens, I can’t remember the title of the book, but it’s about how time is more constant than matter. You know, it’s just sort of those things that fascinate me.
Did you see the movie Interstellar?
Yeah, I did.
What did you think of, like, the representation of time towards the end?
I thought that was good. I mean, you know, just the, you know, the time dilation that you get with Einstein’s relativity, obviously, and, and gravity fields. I thought that was really good. I mean, it was really well done. And then, you know, obviously coming back and seeing his daughter as an old woman, that was that was neat. But even then, being able to go back to, you know, Doctor, I can’t remember what her name was. But anyway, Anne Hathaway is Anne Hathaway’s character. It goes back to her being the same age because she’s still under the influence of this, you know, this gravitational time dilation. It was pretty cool.
Yeah, very. I cry every time I watch them.
Yeah. You know, you know what I found really fascinating? Some of those videos in the beginning were from Ken Burns’ documentary about the dust. A dust bowl in the thirties. So I watched that documentary too. Was pretty, pretty neat.
So this Segways into the last part with you for the origins which is what’s your favorite book and what’s your favorite movie, and then why are they your favorite book and favorite movie?
So for me, my favorite movie is Field of Dreams, and it’s because my son was a huge, huge baseball player. You know, started playing travel baseball when he was six. I played baseball for a while too. But, you know, he ended up becoming just this really, really good pitcher. He had a devastating curveball. But for me, Field of Dreams is about fathers and sons. Yeah. You know, and so that really resonated with me, with my son. We actually went out to Dyersville, and, you know, I’ve got pictures of us playing catch. He was on the mound. I was catching, you know, it was pretty cool. My favorite book. That’s tough. I’ve got a lot of favorite books I’ve been reading. I’ve been really into strategy lately. So I read Two Cities, you know, an account of the Peloponnesian War. There’s a book by a guy named Guy Romo called Good Strategy, Bad Strategy.
We also had a really great presentation at one of our Illinois educational technology leaders with a first named Jeffrey. I forget his last name, but he took us through Pearl Harbor, you know, and it was leadership training. So it was him who’s a former Army colonel. And then it was another guy who did global HR for things like quaker oats and some other things, and they facilitated it, but it was, you know, what can you step through step by step by what happened to Pearl Harbor and what would you do as a leader in that case? And I found that fascinating. So I’ve really been reading histories of, you know, of Ian Toles going to his like a three-part history of the Pacific war in World War two. And I’m just fascinated by that stuff.
So that’s like one thing that’s like a transition for me. I’m enjoying reading more analytical business books, and leadership books than I did. Like, I read like a lot of fantasy, like trash.
Yeah, right
Like books and stuff. But that, like, like learning like, that is like something that just like, I’ve enjoyed more and more, like, every year. Yeah.
My wife gives me a hard time because I just don’t read nonfiction books. I had a professor, you know when I was studying philosophy as an undergrad. Elmer Klemski: You know, somebody asked him why he doesn’t read fiction, and he said, Because there’s too much to know, you know, there’s just so much to know. Then why would I read that? You know, I like some fiction, but yeah, I’m watching.
All right. Well, thanks so much for being part of the origins. I hope the story you like helped shape people.
In Episode 33, Hope Davis, MA, CHC takes us on a journey from personal challenges to leading educational innovation at Teach Tech U. Discover how her experiences fueled a passion for transformative technology in education, shaping the future with Project LEAR. An inspiring conversation for anyone intrigued by the power of tech to change lives. […]
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With guest speaker Marsha Maxwell, PhD, CETL, join us for a reflective journey on the advancements of AI through the years, focusing on how we can further develop these technologies to bridge educational divides.
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